Minutes 22 May 2012

22 May 2012


Minutes of the Parish Council meeting held in Ellingham Church Hall on Tuesday 22 May 2012.


Cllr Burtenshaw (Chairman)

Cllr Stokes

Cllr Errington

Cllr Webster

Cllr Spark

Cllr Shand

Cllr Richardson

DCllr Dow

Natasha Mackenzie (Clerk)

Members of the Public (12).

  1. Apologies


CCllr Heron had sent his apologies to the clerk.

  1. Declaration of Acceptance of Office


All Councillors signed their forms and the clerk countersigned.

  1. Election of a Chairman and Vice Chairman


Election of a Chairman

Cllr Shand proposed that Cllr Burtenshaw remain as Chairman for a further year. This was seconded by Cllr Spark and unanimously agreed.


Election of a Vice Chairman

Following discussions on the role of Vice Chairman with a view to the Vice Chairman potentially stepping up to be the next Chairman in the next few years, Cllr Burtenshaw proposed Cllr Lane for the role. This was seconded by Cllr Richardson and unanimously agreed. Cllr Burtenshaw voiced special thanks to Cllr Stokes who has performed the role for several years and been a wonderful support to her.

  1. Declarations of Interest – none.
  2. Appointments of Councillors to represent Ellingham Harbridge & Ibsley Parish Council (circ. current holders 17May)


The following appointments were agreed for 2012/13:

Almshouse Trustee                    Cllr Shand

Association of Local Councils in New Forest (ALCNF)     Cllr Lane or Cllr Spark

Blashford Lakes Consultative Forum x2             Cllr Errington & Cllr Webster

CEMEX Liaison Panel                     Cllr Errington

Community Plan Steering Group             Cllr Spark & Cllr Richardson

Hanson Concrete Environmental Trust             Cllr Burtenshaw

Ibsley Village Hall Committee                 Cllr Webster or Cllr Richardson

National Trust Local Committee Liaison             Cllr Errington & Cllr Webster

New Forest Consultative Panel                 Cllr Errington

New Forest Wildlife Partnership             Cllr Errington

NFDC Liaison meeting x2                 Chairman & Vice Chairman

NPA New Forest Access Liaison Forum             Cllr Errington & Cllr Shand

NPA North West Parishes Liaison             Cllr Errington & Cllr Shand

NPA Western Escarpment Conservation Management x2 Cllr Errington & Cllr Shand

Plumley Wood Liaison Panel     Cllr Errington (Cllr Stokes & Cllr Burtenshaw representing other groups)

Police Liaison Committee                 Cllr Stokes & Cllr Shand

Rights of Way & Footpaths Officer and Cycle Liaison     Cllr Webster & Cllr Richardson


Transport Officer                     Cllr Stokes or Cllr Spark

Tree Officer                         Cllr Spark

  1. To fix dates and times of the Parish Council and Planning Committee meetings (circ. 17May)


All agreed dates of meetings, as follows:-


Month        Planning Committee        Parish Council

June        Tuesday 12th            Tuesday 26th

July        Tuesday 10th            Tuesday 31st (5th Tuesday as clerk on annual leave)

August        Tuesday 14th            No meeting

September    Tuesday 11th            Tuesday 25th

October    Tuesday 9th            Tuesday 23rd

November    Tuesday 13th            Tuesday 27th

December    Tuesday 11th            No meeting


Month        Planning Committee        Parish Council

January        Tuesday 8th            Tuesday 22nd

February    Tuesday 12th            Tuesday 26th

March        Tuesday 12th            Tuesday 26th

April        Tuesday 9th             Tuesday 23rd Annual Parish Meeting

May        Tuesday 14th            Tuesday 28th Annual Meeting

  1. To elect official signatories to execute official documents on behalf of Ellingham Harbridge & Ibsley Parish Council


It was proposed by Cllr Spark and seconded by Cllr Shand that the Chairman and the Vice Chairman would act as signatories. All in favour

  1. Minutes of the meeting held on Tuesday 27 March 2012 and the Annual Parish Meeting held on 24 April 2012.


It was resolved that the minutes of the last meeting held on Tuesday 27 March 2012 and the minutes of the Annual Parish Meeting on 24 April 2012 were to be signed as a true and accurate record. Proposed by Cllr Webster and seconded by Cllr Shand. All in favour.

  1. Matters Arising


11/61 – Overgrown shrubbery on Snails Lane reported by Mrs King. Clerk is instructing Terry Mason to cut back shrubbery as part of his duties, as this has been going on such a long time. Clerk to write to resident who owns the land.

Unpermitted fishing on the two lakes for sale, as they are listed on NFDC’s enforcement list (since 2005). Cllr Burtenshaw advised the report “Fishing Rights – Blashford Lakes Strategic Management Plan” from Martin Devine advises no enforcement action will be taken as the lakes have been fished for more than 10 years now, and it is likely they will be given planning permission. There was discussion on how if an enforcement notice is served it should remain in places, even if the land is resold. Cllr Errington confirmed he will be having a further meeting with Chris Elliot on this topic, and will update the Parish Council in due course. All agreed the forums should continue to raise this with NFDC.

Public gaining unauthorised access to Snails Lake, Clerk emailed Mark Larter (Natural England) and Clive Williamson (Cemex). Awaiting response.

12/09 Rights of Way – Cllrs Webster and Errington confirmed a list of potential projects is being discussed with Sam Jones, and will update the Parish Council in due course.

12/10 BVPI Survey – Cllrs Webster and Richardson volunteered to work with Kelvin to identify potential projects for the parish and they will present a shortlist to the Parish Council in due course.

12/42 Proposed works of ditch clearance & cutting back trees around Ibsley Bridge and along A338 Ibsley to Ellingham Crossroads to be requested from HCC Highways. Cllr Webster circulated report after meeting with Bob Brown & Cllr Stokes, and this will be monitored for completion.

12/44 Mags Wylie Community Action Hampshire to discuss Hampshire Alliance for Rural Affordable Housing (HARAH). Cllr Richardson to liaise with Mags Wylie to set a date for the drop-in event to commence this project. All agreed early September, after the summer holidays and the Ellingham Show. Cllr Richardson to action.

12/68 Sandbags washed away from gabion at Linford. Cllr Shand has sent photos to Edward Heron, & Bob Brown advised he is liaising with contractors to have repairs carried out.

12/70 New Forest Broadband. No update at present.

  1. Public Forum


A resident requested the cutting back of shrubbery on the corner of Snails Lane be delayed until the nesting season is over. All agreed.

  1. Finance


  1. Payment of accounts. The following cheques were approved for payment. Proposed by Cllr Richardson, seconded by Cllr Spark. All in favour.


HALC Affiliation Fee



Clerk N Mackenzie April salary & expenses



Handyman T Mason March Invoice



Julians Press April newsletter printing



L J Mountford internal audit fee



BT Clerks phone



Clerk N Mackenzie May salary & expenses



  1. Financial report.

Current account £13,601.98 (after these payments above)

Capital reserve account £38,317.40 (inc. £28,224 Headlands 106 monies)

Reserve account £845.75


  1. Election of two signatories on bank accounts. It was proposed any two of the Chairman, Vice Chairman and Clerk continue to remain the signatories on the bank accounts. Proposed by Cllr Spark, seconded by Cllr Shand, all in favour.


  1. Acceptance of audited accounts (circulated). The clerk had circulated the accounts for 2011/12 and the payments & receipts which have been approved by the internal auditor. The audit return to the Audit Commission is ready to be sent if the councillors are in agreement. Proposed by Cllr Spark and seconded by Cllr Richardson, all in favour. The clerk will circulate the Risk Assessment for each councillor to review and comply with.
  1. Development Control:-


  1. NFDC 12/98479 Ashdean, Snails Lane, Blashford – extension to create new first floor; balcony; two-storey front extension; conservatory; roof light. Cllr Richardson explained the location of the property on Snails Lane. On the projector he showed the floor plan of the estate agent’s sales particulars when the property was sold in late 2011 then the existing floor plans as submitted by the applicant, advising the proposed plans look slightly different which he will explain when he shows the proposed plan. Cllr Richardson showed the proposed plan, advising the applicant had informed him the progressing building work (which Cllr Richardson had noted when visiting the site to assess this application) at the property is for three ground floor bedrooms (as shown on the submitted ground floor plan to NFDC) for which he has been granted permission under permitted development by the NFDC. Cllr Richardson showed the proposals for the first floor, advising an increase in the pitch would be required to gain the height required for the two upstairs bedrooms, and the first floor would be the same size as the ground floor including the permitted development bedrooms. The applicant confirmed the existing summer house would be removed.

    Concern was raised by councillors over the additional light pollution which would be created due to the large amount of glazing on the two-storey porch and conservatory. The applicant Mr de Courtney-Collis advised the conservatory would be constructed with four solid walls and a flat roof with a lantern roof light; not a fully glazed conservatory.

    There was extensive discussion surrounding the differences between the existing building’s footprint and its current size; the floor plan of the sales particulars show a separate summer house/ancillary building at the rear and an open roof-covered log store linking the kitchen/breakfast room and workshop with measurement of 91.9 sq.m compared to the applicant’s submitted plans with the utility room being directly linked to the garden room which has direct access to the study with a measurement of 127.6 sq.m. A member of the public spoke to confirm the sales particulars were correct, they had lived next door for 35 years and knew the property well.

    It was also highlighted by the Councillors there were no specific measurements on the proposed plans to show the dimensions of the property and its proposed extension/s, which makes it extremely difficult to gauge the massing and impact of the building with the proposed application. It was clarified that this application is not being assessed against the CO-H2 policy, as the application states the property is more than 100 sq.m.

    After much discussion and deliberation, the Councillors all agreed there was an overall lack of definitive information on dimensions and scale of the existing and proposed floor plans.  In addition, there is no clarity on whether any permitted development has already been granted by the NFDC, and the Parish Council agreed there was not enough detail and sufficient information to make an informed decision on this application.  Cllr Spark proposed to refuse this application under option 4 for the following reasons:-

  • There is a lack of consistency when comparing the existing floor plans to those of the sale particulars and insufficient information on dimensions within the application which makes it extremely difficult to determine both the habitable floor space for policy purposes and the size and massing of the proposed building;
  • There is no reference to the Permitted Development claimed by the Applicant and therefore it is difficult to differentiate between that and the application proposals;
  • The presence of a design & access statement or some narrative would have been beneficial with this application to explain the calculations with regard to the Permitted Development.

Seconded by Cllr Errington, all in favour.

  1. Crime in the Parish – none.
  2. Environmental Matters


  1. Hanson grant funded benches – new quotes. Cllr Richardson and Cllr Burtenshaw are going to work on this together and report at the next Parish council meeting.


  1. Discharge of waste water in Mockbeggar Lane.
    Cllr Burtenshaw thanked Cllr Webster for reporting this matter to the Parish Council and to the Environment Agency, highlighting the importance of the residents remaining alert.


  1. Parking on Parish Council owned SSSI verges. Further to a visitor parking their horsebox on the verge at Cross Lanes Chapel and when confronted on how parking is not permitted, the response was ‘there’s no sign’, the Parish Council have appointed a working group to consider whether any signage would be appropriate. Cllr Richardson has photographed a Forestry Commission sign as a good example. The parking at Moyles Court School car boot sale was briefly mentioned, and the Parish Council are reassured there was no damage to the verges. Working group to discuss and report in due course.


  1. Flooding – Snails Lane & Gorley Road junction. Flooding in this area was reported to the clerk by a resident. Councillors agreed Pigeon House Corner has historically been a flood spot when extreme wet conditions are experience (as of late); the sump gets filled with gravel washed down from the common and there is no gradient for the water to soak away. Flash flooding has been experienced in Mockbeggar, however it was noted by local councillors travelling in the area it cleared within an hour or two. Clerk to respond to resident.


  1. Latchmore. Cllr Burtenshaw reported on the site meeting of 11May’12 with the Forestry Commission, Hyde Parish Council and HCC Highways. She advised the meeting was very beneficial to discuss the proposed access routes to transport the materials needed for the restoration scheme. 8-10,000 tons of gravel and clay are needed, 2/3 of it will be transported via Alderhill and 1/3 via Ellingham Drove, Mockbeggar and South Gorley. Two lorries will be used, and only 1 at a time (fully loaded lorry will wait in Ellingham Drove for returning lorry to pass before setting off). Round trip of journey from Hamer Warren is estimated at 1.5 hours, with a total number of trips 10-12 per day for a max, of 10 working days (to be reviewed after 7 days to avoid over-ordering of materials). The contractor is using the same two drivers for the transportation, to encourage responsibility and continuity, and to ensure they fully understand potential problems, such as danger to wildlife and residents.

Additional Points raised by Parish Councils.

1) Mail drop required to all residents with special notification to Moyles Court school (for summer events?), Livery Yards and Riding Stables, the Coach House (Nursery School), Bygone Days Event on 4th/5th August and other businesses. Agreed

2) Because of busier times travelling to work etc, we requested working day restricted to say 9.00am to 4.30pm. This is possible but it would result in extending the working period of 10 days.

3) With summer traffic on small roads, especially cyclists and horses, speed limit of 20mph required. Agreed

4) Requested ‘before and after’ survey of all roads and all subsequent damage to roads and verges to be made good after the event. Agreed.

5) Parish Council not to be held responsible for any damage to SSSI verges as required by their management agreement. Any damage to be made good.

6) All ditches should be dug out and cleared before the work commences so as to allow swift egress and run-off of water and prevent water lying around, even during good weather conditions for working the contract. Agreed.

7) Narrow sections of the route were highlighted between Newlands and Cross Lanes, between Ibsley Garage and Old School House and all along the route from South Gorley. Passing places should be put in place at pre-agreed appropriate points. Agreed, to consult with Parish Council.

8) Contact numbers should be made available and agreed passage of reporting any issues that might arise. Agreed.

A resident Fiona Macdonald raised concerns over the amount being transported – however the figures provided of materials, with two trucks and number of days is correct. She pointed out that a lorry carrying 20 tonnes of material actually has a total weight of about 32 tonnes. She also raised concerns over the old cottages without foundations and any potential damage that could be caused. Cllr Burtenshaw to contact FC to see if a structural engineer can be consulted.

When reviewing the route on the projector, Cllr Richardson suggested if instead of Ellingham Drove whether Popes Lane can be used directly from the A338, as there are no properties on this lane. Cllr Burtenshaw to liaise with FC.

  1. Community Matters


  1. The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee. Cllr Burtenshaw advised Natural England have refused permission for the proposed siting of the two oaks
    and raised another of other issues including a requirement for ‘no protective fencing’. Cllr Burtenshaw advised she will continue to pursue this matter with them.


  1. Ellingham Show 11 August 2012. Cllr Lane reported on the recent meeting of the working group (Cllrs Lane, Stokes and Webster). The Working group proposed to pay for a pitch this year on main thoroughfare cost £70. Proposed by Cllr Lane, seconded by Cllr Richardson, all in favour. Also to hire a marquee from Castle Marquees again, proposed by Cllr Lane, seconded by Cllr Stokes, all in favour.

    The Photo competition was discussed and the following themes put forward – skies of the parish, how places have changed, wartime RAF. All agreed the wartime RAF theme. Working group to action.

    It was voted for the banner at Shaves Green to be placed facing south on A338 – Clerk to arrange with handyman. It was proposed by Cllr Lane to sponsor a horse class, seconded by Cllr Richardson, all in favour. Working group to action.


  1. Website – update. Cllr Burtenshaw advised Moyles Court School had approached the clerk asking for help to promote a Midsummer Charity Ball in aid of 1st Poulner Scout Group. As no suitable jobs were identified for the Scout ‘Do1Thing week’, Cllr Burtenshaw proposed EHI PC sponsor an item of equipment for the Ball. Cllr Shand proposed to donate £50, seconded by Cllr Spark, all in favour. Clerk to contact Scout organiser.


  1. Community Payback – to discuss if the Parish Council want to use this service. With the help of Ringwood & Fordingbridge Footpath Society and Cllr Webster a list of footpaths requiring clearing has been identified. Clerk to arrange a site meeting with Matt Simpson Placement Manager.

Cllr Burtenshaw proposed to suspend Standing Orders at 9.28pm, seconded by Cllr Spark, all in favour.


  1. CEMEX land for sale outside Alice Lisle pub, Rockford. The land for sale was discussed and all agreed the Parish Council would be agreeable if the land was gifted/donated.
  1. Consultation Papers:


  1. Review the governance arrangements of National Parks to increase local accountability (response by 31 May’12). Cllr Errington confirmed he is still working on this and he will circulate his response.


  1. Christchurch & East Dorset Core Strategy 2013-2028 Regulation 27 Pre-Submission Document; (response by 25Jun’12). Cllr Spark confirmed he will respond and circulate it before the deadline.


  1. Section 106 Developer Contributions – Draft Guidance Note; (response by 31May’12). Cllr Stokes volunteered to review this consultation.


  1. Hampshire Minerals & Waste Plan Development Plan Document – Public Examination (hearings 6th to 15th June). Cllr Burtenshaw agreed to review this consultation.
  1. Outside Bodies:

To approve the Councillors’ circulated reports of meetings attended and to deal with any issues arising:


  1. Ibsley Village Hall official minutes 08Mar’12 & Councillor’s report 10May’12 (Cllr Webster). Cllr Webster will liaise with IVH to ask if they would like a feature on their proposed link-up with the National Trust in our July Newsletter.
  2. Police Liaison meeting 13Mar’12 – unattended
  3. Western Escarpment Conservation Area Steering Group meeting 02Apr’12 (Cllrs Errington & Shand)
  4. New Forest North West Quadrant meeting 16Apr’12 (Cllr Shand)
  5. New Forest Access Forum minutes 05Mar’12 – unattended
  1. County/District Matters:


    1. Reports from County & District Councillors. DCllr Dow commented on land advertised for sale on road up to Ogdens. All agreed to establish where land is and investigate.
  2. Correspondence


The clerk had been copied in on a complaint from CEMEX to HCC Highways in relation to the closure of the Alderholt Road for 9 days. They are unhappy that CEMEX had not been consulted at all about the closure, as it is their agreed route for transport. HCC Highways have replied they do appreciate this will cause disruption, however it has been carefully considered and this is the only way the conveyor bridge over Harbridge Drove serving the Tarmac site can be constructed.

The meeting closed at 10.00pm.

Dates of forthcoming meetings to be held at Ellingham Church Hall at 7pm:-

Parish Council                     Planning Committee

Tuesday 26 May 2012                Tuesday 12 June 2012

Tuesday 31 July 2012 (5th Tuesday in month    Tuesday 10 July 2012

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